Ridley Scott’s Napoleon really could have been an excellent 6-10 part miniseries.
The film looked incredible but the tone was all over the place and it tried to cover way too much ground. Figure out the tone and take enough time to let things breathe and it would be incredible.
I heard someone was going to do a remake of Spartacus and I thought, Why? I think there has been a film or two about Carthage's Hannibal. A film about the Roman seige of Jerusalem could be interesting - Flavius Josephus would make a really complex character. I generally give historical epics a miss these days. In childhood, I thought the 1959 Ben-Hur, which we had on double videocassete, was amazing, but eventually outgrew its hype. Since then, films in the genre have generally been a disappointment. My cousins raved about Braveheart when it came out, but when I finally saw it, the historical inaccuracies just made it seem ridiculous. I did enjoy Master and Commander, but then as a violinist myself, it was nice to see actors make a genuine effort to look like they were actually playing the instruments.
My question is, why are historical accuracy and entertainment always posited as trade offs? Can't we have both? It's not as if Napoleon's actual life was boring... That said, I rather enjoyed Gladiator I even with all its inaccuracies. It was highly entertaining and since the focus was on a fictional character, I found it easy to look past the nonsense. Different story, it seems to me, when the film actually purports to be about a real person.
thanks for the warning - duly noted. I got the strong sense from the trailer that it was more a remake than a sequel because i had such an overwhelming sense of deja vu in tone and the odd line. until your review, nostalgia was going to carry me into the big screen anyway. I saw the first Gladiator in a cinema in San Francisco when I lived in the US many years ago and i had a romantic notion that it would be great to see the second Gladiator on the big screen during my second stint living in the US.
When a production puts the accurate details in it pays off. I randomly am remembering a behind-the-scenes about making Downton Abbey (not sure why that of all things popped into my head) about how they wove historical details and artifacts into plot with care and attention and it really enriches even when the viewer is only subconsciously aware.
Lets try to keep depth and texture alive in an increasingly shallow world.
You'd think Hollywood would have learned something when two enormous original films Barbie and Oppenheimer stormed an entire summer, but apparently not!
Exactly! Movies without existing IP also have the capacity to bring people to the cinema but I guess studios are worried about making films with universal appeal instead of producing stories that are a but mor niche but original.
I really enjoyed reading this and while I liked Gladiator II and found Paul Mescal ok, I too wondered why they were making a sequel. However, I think the main issue with this one is as you’ve pointed out that there’s an imbalance in performances and that’s down to a script that lacks grit. Historical accuracy aside, there was potential to make an epic sequel. When Mescal addresses the gladiators I was hoping for the kind of scene in the cave in Dune 2 but it wasn’t meant to be. Most of us have fond memories of Gladiator and I can see how we were (or still are) skeptical about this second and upcoming third instalment. Like I said, I found it was enjoyable to watch, especially on a big screen, but it lacks the necessary epic factor that we expect from a film like this.
They could have done a Spartacus-inspired story where Lucius inspires a wider slave revolt that takes over Rome. Maybe it becomes Dune-like in that the movement quickly gets away from him and the rebellion leads to atrocities that he later regrets, or something. But alas, we got a rehash of Gladiator I, but worse, instead.
Well, it's not like there was another Death Star needing to be destroyed just like in the first movie. Oh, sorry, wrong beaten to death movie franchise.
This is the dilemma with ‘must see’ blockbusters getting crap reviews: do I just believe them and go around saying to people “I hear that Gladiator’s pretty crap” or, in order to add credence to my views, throw even more dosh into Ridley’s pot and go see it for myself?…even though I’m fairly certain I’ll then just moan about it anyway! I’m still deciding…
I know what you mean, I find it very hard to trust reviews and always want to see things for myself then end up wondering why I just didn’t believe them in the first place!
Profoubdly depressing. Napolean was a complete crock. Ridley Scott hasn't made a half decent movie since, oh wait let me think, the original Gladiator!
I'm a big fan of a good historical drama... It's just that most of them suck. Even the ones that are fairly accurate with regard to costumes and props and so on often just show 21st century people dressed up, if you see what I mean. Surely the most interesting thing about the past is that people didn't think like we think? That's why history is such a brain-freshening tonic.
I loved The King, also recently saw a few pretty good ones about my own country: The Convert, and Ka Whawhai Tonu - Struggle Without End. To be fair I only saw the first half of Ka Whawhai Tonu before I had to change planes, so I can't speak for the second half.
I think the cafe scene was originally concieved as a way to profit from product placement but they lost the thread.
Movies are losing out to TV series which have greater ability to develop storyline and character development and have resurrected the original format of stories that came out monthly as serial chapters in newspapers such as Dickens produced.
Movies have become short stories with massive investments in special effects and in SF at around $30+ for me and my wife are seldom worth it.
I enjoyed the first Gladiator when I was younger-in many ways, it was that movie (along with all the trips I took to the museum of Natural History) that inspired & nurtured my passion for History and why I got a degree in it. As the years have gone on, so many epics have not gotten their history right-only a few ever do. The only modern movie & shows I can think of that combined accuracy with authenticity is Lincoln (2012) & HBO’s Rome (2005-2007) I’m not sure how much liberty Starz Spartacus takes, but I did hear good reviews about it.
I hoped/wanted this movie to be good because I’ve read about the Severan dynasty and there’s so much material there. So much corruption and debauchery-added to the fact that their dynasty led to the Crisis of the Third Century, which eventually led to the creation of the Byzantine Empire and the Fall of the West.
I was not expecting much and I knew I would disappointed and yet it disappointed me even more 😆
Honestly, one of the things that annoyed me a lot was actually Connie's character. Woman! You lived this once, why would you repeat the exact same mistakes as last time? It was almost like she (they) forgot how she ended up in this situation in the first place, surely someone like her character would be very aware of past mistakes. Made no sense at all.
100% agree! It seemed they were so intent on remaking the first movie that they just ignored any inconveniences like the fact certain characters’ motivations made no sense at all. Why would Lucius hate her? Why does Acacius need to go in person to the plot? Why did they tell Thraex the whole plot? Just do the plot, stop telling everyone about it!
I agree, they should have spent time giving the new characters time to be their own and not just puppets of the previous movie's plot. Such a shame really, because I did think the cast was good and they could probably have done a great movie if they only had the right script
veni, vidi, dormivi
😂
Ridley Scott’s Napoleon really could have been an excellent 6-10 part miniseries.
The film looked incredible but the tone was all over the place and it tried to cover way too much ground. Figure out the tone and take enough time to let things breathe and it would be incredible.
Yeah I 100% agree. That story would be perfect for a mini-series.
Ridley Scott has announced the next sequel will be called Gladiator: Port of Call New Orleans
I heard someone was going to do a remake of Spartacus and I thought, Why? I think there has been a film or two about Carthage's Hannibal. A film about the Roman seige of Jerusalem could be interesting - Flavius Josephus would make a really complex character. I generally give historical epics a miss these days. In childhood, I thought the 1959 Ben-Hur, which we had on double videocassete, was amazing, but eventually outgrew its hype. Since then, films in the genre have generally been a disappointment. My cousins raved about Braveheart when it came out, but when I finally saw it, the historical inaccuracies just made it seem ridiculous. I did enjoy Master and Commander, but then as a violinist myself, it was nice to see actors make a genuine effort to look like they were actually playing the instruments.
Hannibal Barca biopic when.
Exactly
Yes! 100% agree
Hannibal biopic, then a Hamilcar prequel. Call me if you need a writer.
My question is, why are historical accuracy and entertainment always posited as trade offs? Can't we have both? It's not as if Napoleon's actual life was boring... That said, I rather enjoyed Gladiator I even with all its inaccuracies. It was highly entertaining and since the focus was on a fictional character, I found it easy to look past the nonsense. Different story, it seems to me, when the film actually purports to be about a real person.
I agree they don’t have to be trade offs, but at this point I’d be willing to take an inaccurate film if the story was good!
thanks for the warning - duly noted. I got the strong sense from the trailer that it was more a remake than a sequel because i had such an overwhelming sense of deja vu in tone and the odd line. until your review, nostalgia was going to carry me into the big screen anyway. I saw the first Gladiator in a cinema in San Francisco when I lived in the US many years ago and i had a romantic notion that it would be great to see the second Gladiator on the big screen during my second stint living in the US.
When a production puts the accurate details in it pays off. I randomly am remembering a behind-the-scenes about making Downton Abbey (not sure why that of all things popped into my head) about how they wove historical details and artifacts into plot with care and attention and it really enriches even when the viewer is only subconsciously aware.
Lets try to keep depth and texture alive in an increasingly shallow world.
You'd think Hollywood would have learned something when two enormous original films Barbie and Oppenheimer stormed an entire summer, but apparently not!
Exactly! Movies without existing IP also have the capacity to bring people to the cinema but I guess studios are worried about making films with universal appeal instead of producing stories that are a but mor niche but original.
I really enjoyed reading this and while I liked Gladiator II and found Paul Mescal ok, I too wondered why they were making a sequel. However, I think the main issue with this one is as you’ve pointed out that there’s an imbalance in performances and that’s down to a script that lacks grit. Historical accuracy aside, there was potential to make an epic sequel. When Mescal addresses the gladiators I was hoping for the kind of scene in the cave in Dune 2 but it wasn’t meant to be. Most of us have fond memories of Gladiator and I can see how we were (or still are) skeptical about this second and upcoming third instalment. Like I said, I found it was enjoyable to watch, especially on a big screen, but it lacks the necessary epic factor that we expect from a film like this.
They could have done a Spartacus-inspired story where Lucius inspires a wider slave revolt that takes over Rome. Maybe it becomes Dune-like in that the movement quickly gets away from him and the rebellion leads to atrocities that he later regrets, or something. But alas, we got a rehash of Gladiator I, but worse, instead.
Well, it's not like there was another Death Star needing to be destroyed just like in the first movie. Oh, sorry, wrong beaten to death movie franchise.
This is the dilemma with ‘must see’ blockbusters getting crap reviews: do I just believe them and go around saying to people “I hear that Gladiator’s pretty crap” or, in order to add credence to my views, throw even more dosh into Ridley’s pot and go see it for myself?…even though I’m fairly certain I’ll then just moan about it anyway! I’m still deciding…
I know what you mean, I find it very hard to trust reviews and always want to see things for myself then end up wondering why I just didn’t believe them in the first place!
Profoubdly depressing. Napolean was a complete crock. Ridley Scott hasn't made a half decent movie since, oh wait let me think, the original Gladiator!
Might still go for Denzel...
I'm a big fan of a good historical drama... It's just that most of them suck. Even the ones that are fairly accurate with regard to costumes and props and so on often just show 21st century people dressed up, if you see what I mean. Surely the most interesting thing about the past is that people didn't think like we think? That's why history is such a brain-freshening tonic.
I loved The King, also recently saw a few pretty good ones about my own country: The Convert, and Ka Whawhai Tonu - Struggle Without End. To be fair I only saw the first half of Ka Whawhai Tonu before I had to change planes, so I can't speak for the second half.
I’m actually heading to New Zealand in a few months so I might watch Ka Whawhai Tonu as preparation, thanks for the tip!
Great! I'm (usually) in Wellington, if you want to meet up for a coffee
I think the cafe scene was originally concieved as a way to profit from product placement but they lost the thread.
Movies are losing out to TV series which have greater ability to develop storyline and character development and have resurrected the original format of stories that came out monthly as serial chapters in newspapers such as Dickens produced.
Movies have become short stories with massive investments in special effects and in SF at around $30+ for me and my wife are seldom worth it.
I enjoyed the first Gladiator when I was younger-in many ways, it was that movie (along with all the trips I took to the museum of Natural History) that inspired & nurtured my passion for History and why I got a degree in it. As the years have gone on, so many epics have not gotten their history right-only a few ever do. The only modern movie & shows I can think of that combined accuracy with authenticity is Lincoln (2012) & HBO’s Rome (2005-2007) I’m not sure how much liberty Starz Spartacus takes, but I did hear good reviews about it.
I hoped/wanted this movie to be good because I’ve read about the Severan dynasty and there’s so much material there. So much corruption and debauchery-added to the fact that their dynasty led to the Crisis of the Third Century, which eventually led to the creation of the Byzantine Empire and the Fall of the West.
I wanted this to be good
The two emperors Geta and Caracalla are barely in the movie, sadly. I agree their family’s story would be a much better premise
I was not expecting much and I knew I would disappointed and yet it disappointed me even more 😆
Honestly, one of the things that annoyed me a lot was actually Connie's character. Woman! You lived this once, why would you repeat the exact same mistakes as last time? It was almost like she (they) forgot how she ended up in this situation in the first place, surely someone like her character would be very aware of past mistakes. Made no sense at all.
100% agree! It seemed they were so intent on remaking the first movie that they just ignored any inconveniences like the fact certain characters’ motivations made no sense at all. Why would Lucius hate her? Why does Acacius need to go in person to the plot? Why did they tell Thraex the whole plot? Just do the plot, stop telling everyone about it!
I agree, they should have spent time giving the new characters time to be their own and not just puppets of the previous movie's plot. Such a shame really, because I did think the cast was good and they could probably have done a great movie if they only had the right script